Female Forum

I was reading this thread about equality and some of the replies got me thinking about women putting their career first and how this affects me.

I work in a team of 9, all women (3 of us are web people, 4 are the ‘communications team’ and the other two are our bosses). I’m the youngest in the team (27), one of the other web girls is a couple of years older, but the rest are all over 40. I think of them as ‘the older generation’ not because of their age but because they all have children - not small children either, they’re all at least secondary school age or above.

Anyway, myself and the other younger woman were chatting a while ago about the fact that the rest of the team can be quite hard work because they always put their children first. We both work full time and don’t have kids, so when we’re at work, we’re at work and that’s it. It feels like the rest of the team are constantly at the mercy of their children e.g. when their kids are sick, they need a day or a morning off. They mostly work part time anyway so that they can see more of their kids. They’re often late in because of the school run. when they arrive, we get half an hour of distracting chatter about what their kids did last night.

What i find interesting is that, as I say, most of these women work part time (now i think about it, all but two do). Their husbands are the breadwinners, they just seem to do this for something to do. My other colleague and I however see this as our careers, whereas you sometimes get the feeling the others don’t care. All this can be really frustrating when you’re trying to work on a project and they’re missing deadlines because they had to take the kids to the doctor or you can’t get hold of them on a Friday when the customer wants a decision because that’s their day off, or you have to do twice as much work to cover their absence etc…

So, I was wondering, is this a generational thing? I’m not saying it’s wrong to put your family first: when I have children, of course they will be more important than my job, I’d be foolish to think otherwise, but all the same, it seems very unprofessional on their parts. I’d like to think I’d still be dedicated to my job, much as I love my kids.

Does anyone else have any experience of this? I’m quite curious to hear about this from the opposite perspective - people who work and have kids - is it difficult working with people like me who don’t? 

I don’t think it’s a generational thing. I think it’s just that you and your co-workers have different perspectives and different priorities. Personally, I think that family should always come first, however it shouldn’t be at the expense of your job. That’s on the employers head though - if he or she lets them get away with constantly coming in late, taking unscheduled time off and missing deadlines, then they will take advantage of it. If they were being reprimanded and given verbal and written warnings, I bet there’d be a change in their attitude toward work.

As for the distracting chatter, well, that’s just a parent thing and again comes down to perspectives and priorities. We don’t have a great deal else in our lives because we’re busy with our family, so that’s all we have to talk about and frankly, we’re proud of our kids even when they are little monsters! Look at it from the other side - you’re single and young, so you’re more interested in (for example) fashion, nightclubs and boys. You talking about the guy you met while you were as drunk as a skunk at some hot new club is probably as distracting for them as their mother-talk is for you. (Not that that’s what you talk about, but you know what I mean ...).

All i will say is that i have had a few jobs where i have felt taken advantage of because parents have wanted time off, or to leave early / arrive late, and the work has been piled onto my plate instead. Because i choose not to have children it seems people like myself have to ‘pay for it’. It does at times feel very unfair.

GnomeGrrl - 30 Aug 2009 05:35 PM

you’re single and young, so you’re more interested in (for example) fashion, nightclubs and boys. You talking about the guy you met while you were as drunk as a skunk at some hot new club is probably as distracting for them as their mother-talk is for you. (Not that that’s what you talk about, but you know what I mean ...).

Both myself and the other women are long term married (I’ve just passed 5 years, she’s been for over 10). When we’re at work, we pretty much talk about… work. If I wanted to to gossip, I’d do it with my friends outside of work (maybe I have a separate issue with gossip at work in general - I like quiet to work). I think this is the problem: we value what we’re doing as a career whereas I sometimes get the impression that some of my colleagues really do just see it as something to do while the kids are at school (one of them has pretty much said this to us, and indeed when we were trying to meet a deadline once, asked me why did I care so much!). 

I agree it should be down to the employer to stop it but 1) our team leader is one of the ones that does this and 2) our employer is very very keen on being seen to be fair to women. They bend over backwards to make sure that women aren’t held back in careers, for example, because they have children - hence why we can work flexitime. This is a good thing, and indeed one of the reasons I want to stay working there, but I think they have to be fair to the women who don’t have kids and actually treat their job as a career. I’m also curious how guys at work feel about this. The couple I’ve discussed it with seem to share my opinion.

Like I said in my first post, I’m sure once i have kids of my own, they will become top priority. However I’d like to think I would be able to carry on my job with a bit more professionalism than some of my current colleagues.

I didn’t mean to imply that you were one of those flitty ditzy staffers, mookie. It was the only example I could think of and one that probably most of us have experienced at most times in our lives.

It is great that your employer has that philosophy but I do agree that they should be fair to those who aren’t coming in late or running out early. It’s you guys that have to pick up the slack.

I was a working mum who took my job very seriously. I put in the extra hours to get the job done and meet deadlines. When I was at work, I worked no matter what the job. I had the occasional day off when my children were sick and needed me but I more than made up for that time off.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that these women are mothers, that they do what they do but perhaps more so that they just aren’t taking their jobs seriously and that happens in all generations. I’ve come across younger people who only want to talk about what they’ve done on the weekend or planning on doing. Who have turned up for work still under the weather from the night before and this is all age groups… and we’ve all had to carry them at some point.

This is a management problem not a ‘mother’ problem. If a child is genuinely sick, someone needs to be at home with that child and that employee needs to be covered. What is your management doing about it? If management is taking a lax attitude to its employees those employees are more likely to take advantage of that if they don’t take their job seriously. How unprofessional is it of a management that expects its already busy employees to constantly cover people who are away?

How often do we go into a shop and can’t get service because the employees are standing around talking? It happens regularly, yet most customers just walk out rather than make it known that they’re not happy with the service.

If this was going on in my place of employment mookie I’d be making it known to management and I’d expect something to be done about it. It could be seen as being unprofessional to just continue picking up the slack of slackers? While you’re happy to keep picking the excess work, its going to continue. You need to make yourself heard. Let management know your not happy about it.

you can’t get hold of them on a Friday when the customer wants a decision because that’s their day off

No matter whether a mother or not, if you are part time, you are not going to be there to make a decision on your day off. It’s not your responsibility to be at work on your day off. If your employer wants you to be on-call then the employer needs compensate you for that.

This truly sounds to me like a management problem in your place of employment mookie. It’s not about an age group or whether your a mother or not… its simply poorly managed.

I also feel I have been treat unfairly because i didn’t have children in past employment and I can recall many time in and out of work just hearing other peoples conversation that there are many mothers who say something along the lines of “oh this place is a break for me” as they.

In my last long term employment an example was I had worked the past 4 Christmas and new years twice because they were my hours and twice because i was made to feel like i had too so the 5th time i pointed this out only to be given the hours I had to invent all these family commitments to get time of as management were putting on the pressure. I ended up swapping with a friend with a small son on Christmas eve but that was my choice not because I was forced into the decision.

I agree this is a management problem but also an equality problem as it is women who are expected to take the time of if a child is sick if there was a better attitude generally that father take their share of this responsibility too then think that wold even things out a bit of course taking account for single parent families in this who have no choice.

I’m not saying that people without children are not having to help cover those who do because they do sometimes. But its not a generation thing as such.

I too have made those comments Kez about work being a break. It’s simply meant as a quip to how hard life can be at times at home with children and its good to get out and get to work. It’s not reflecting how easy work is or that they are only at work to have fun. It is meant with the intention that work doesn’t seem as hard when life at home is harder, especially when you have sick children or teenagers who are driving you insane. The thing is, if a child has the flu its going to mean at least a few days off for each of the parents between them because it takes a few days for the kids to get better.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I think it needs to be kept in mind that these people in their 40’s etc that have children have been exactly where you and mookie are. Single or married without children starting careers and working hard and helping to share the load at work with working parents. We’ve all done it. It’s part of life and if we can’t give a little to those who have already put in the hard yakka (work) what sort of community and work atmosphere are we creating. I’m not saying that its ok for people to stand around talking when they need to be working etc, all I’m saying is that its not one-sided either way.

When you have children and you need to be the one who is taking time off for them remember how you’re feeling now. Believe me, its very different on the other side. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. It’s just that its very hard to see things in another view when you haven’t experienced them and I understand that.

But take it seriously from someone who has been where you are, if you are being expected to meet deadlines of others as well as your own, that legitimately require more time etc, say so. Don’t put up with being a pack horse. It’s ok to carry a heavy burden sometimes when its been necessary for whatever reasons, that adds to our abilities in many ways. It’s not ok to be expected to do the work of two people constantly. Speak up for you and know your entitlements.

Be calm assertive, not aggressive and let them know you know your place. Self empowerment is one of life’s most important lessons. Take this experience as an opportunity to become your own self empowerment. Believe me it will lead you in good stead later.

If I had not had children and my career was my life, I still need to understand that other people cannot always fit into what I want for me. Part of our working lives is learning how to manage ourselves alongside others especially when things don’t fit the way we want them to. We need to be able to allow for others and still be able to do our own job. That’s what careers are all about. That’s employment.

I read my last post and feeling a bit bemused, I knew I was about to make a point about something and then somehow just dazed off mid sentence after my comment about women who say work is a break.

I can’t remember what I was going to say but I don’t mean to imply I think working mothers go to work for just for a break, as individuals women have ambitions which I don’t think just fizzle out because they are mothers. The role gets harder thats for sure.

I think these scenarios will always cause friction between women as each groups - childless , with children, stay at home mum and working mum - I think they can look at each other without a real understanding, sometime dislike and even with a bit of envy.

Well, im 27 years old and im single woman but yet still i feel that i can’t give all my effort to work only even though i wanna

do that but sometimes i feels like givin myself some quality time and take days off work and that affects my work definitly but

i can’t work and give results without being in a good mood honestly..

Thats why im scared to get involved in a relationship coz that would affect my career for sure u know..

I guess the optimal challenge for each of us as individuals and team members is to ultimately do what is right for ourselves first and also do our best for the team and our job.

I guess it also depends on where you are standing which sets the pace of work vs home/lifestyle. If you live to work ultimately your home life is going to be affected, and vice versa. Finding a balance between the two could well be the altruistic challenge.

I had the luxury of being a stay at home mum.. My OH and I agreed before we married that I would be at home with the children until they went to secondary school - 11 years old..
I got to do all the fantastic stuff helping at school with field trips and sports day being home when they were sick without any pressure, the whole summer holiday was one long round of trips to the sea and pick niks..

But there were sacrifices, even though I later did my business studies exams and passed I knew I would be passed over because of my age and what do you know Im now working as a home help which even though I love it its no where near what I trained for..
Then theres all the stuff you cant do on one income fancy holidays , brand name clothes, a new car , nights out, trips to theme parks ect ect..
Even getting the kids thier school clothes bags and books was a tight squeeze sometimes..
But we managed and Im glad we did I am so grateful that my OH wanted this for our children and Im glad I did it. A career isnt everything the people our children turn out to be are, and maybe if we gave mothers a bit more credit for the job they do and a bit more recognition of just how hard that can be more women might feel encouraged to stay at home with little ones instead of pursuing social standing and acceptence by staying on at work and juggeling thier lives like some mad circus act..